5 Harsh Realities of Leading Change

By | Change, Church, Church Revitalization, Leadership | No Comments

Leading change is a part of leadership. You can’t lead without change, but it can be hard. Along the way of leading change – or attempting to – I’ve discovered some harsh realities.

If you are amid some “heavy-lifting” change leadership, see if some of these apply to you. And you may not know some of them are happening, but likely they are at some level. Knowing them can help you face the harsh reality and hopefully lead better.

5 harsh realities of leading change:

There will be more conversations about you than with you.

When you’re in the thick of leading change, you will likely be upsetting people’s comfort level. And they will talk. Mostly they will talk to other people – about you.

That’s hard. Most of us want to be liked and we’d rather know what people are saying about us. This is not to control conversation, but to steer momentum into a positive direction for the change. Many times, people are sharing reasons for change that simply aren’t true. In the absence of knowledge, people often make up their own version of the story.

Knowing this reality, I try to ask lots of questions during times of change. I make sure I have trusted people around me who will keep me informed of what I need to know. Most importantly, I try to cast vision repeatedly as to why we are making the change and the potential future rewards and realities for doing so.

You will likely be misunderstood more than appreciated.

(Or at least it might feel that way at the time. I’m convinced naysayers have louder vocal cords.) Change can be confusing to people. Many times, people won’t fully understand the rationale behind the change until they are enjoying the new reality. If you’re the leader, you’ve likely, often from collaboration, seen a vision of what’s to come that others simply can’t yet see. Because of this they will not always appreciate the change leader along during the process of change.

This is where trust as a leader comes into play. Leadership is a stewardship of trust. Of course, trust is developed over time and experience of doing what you said you would do as a leader. That makes changing too quickly or too early in your tenure especially difficult. Regardless, the leader must be keenly aware of the need to build and maintain trust along the way of leading change.

You’ll explain it as clearly as you know how – and some will still not understand.

It’s change. It’s personal to them. Change will impact people in an emotional way. Emotions are not always explainable or understandable. Also, people often hear what they want to hear. They translate your explanation for the change through their individual context. This is perfectly natural, but it often leads to confusion during the change process.

Again, this highlights the importance of constant communication as to the why (and the where) of change throughout the change process. You’ll have to share it in different ways, illustrate the change with stories of which people can relate, and make sure some key influencers understand, support and can articulate the need for change.

You might not get to enjoy the results of change.

This is certainly a harsh reality – and one I’ve experienced several times personally. It could be you are the change agent, the one used to bring about change, but someone else will get to experience the benefits of the change. (I think we have a few biblical examples of this principle.)

Others may not even celebrate the role you played – and that’s okay. This is where you’ll have to remind yourself of your calling. You’ll need to seek your affirmation in the purpose behind the change and enjoy the pleasure of knowing you did what you were supposed to do.

The change you lead, as good as it might be, will eventually need to be changed again.

Here’s another harsh reality of leading change. You have blood, sweat and tears attached to the change. But no matter how well as you lead change, it won’t last forever. It too will one day be obsolete. And likely, the harder it was to lead the change, the more difficult it will be for you to let go and see it change.

Again, here’s where you realize you’ve been called to lead. In my experience, God tends to use those most willing to living in the tensions of change – and with the harsh realities of leading change. So, get back up and do it again.

LEADERSHIP PODCAST: Catch up on our leadership podcast. We are recording new episodes this week.

One Thing Every Leader Needs – Right Now

By | Church, Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership | No Comments

There is one thing every leader needs to figure out – and they need to do so right now. Immediately.

I have been leading for over 35 years in some capacity. Having led in multiple contexts – in business, government, nonprofit and the church – I can say I’ve never seen a time quite like the world of leadership today. It’s not just the pandemic or the changing culture. Everything has changed about the landscape of leadership.

Well, not everything. Actually much has stayed the same. People ultimately want to the same things out of life. They want to find happiness, fulfillment, and a sense of accomplishment and value in life. A great part of leadership is helping people discover those realities – even when the odds seem stacked against them.

But most the parameters in which we lead have changed. The challenges we face in leading people today – that’s all changed.

We simply can’t expect to do the same things we’ve always done and get the same results. New skills of leadership are needed. More patience (often with people) is required. The ways we communicate with people we are trying to lead – that’s all changed. Pressures on leaders to address every social issue are greater than ever. The divisiveness of people and the quick changes in the “rules” are more real than previous times in my leadership.

Frankly, I’m having to learn (or re-learn) good leadership principles every single day.

So, that leads me to the one thing every leader needs – right now.

It’s the one I’m trying to figure out myself as I attempt to lead today.

Every leader today needs RHYTHM.

While we tend to think of rhythm mostly in terms of music or the arts, one definition of rhythm that caught my attention is movement, fluctuation, or variation marked by the regular recurrence or natural flow of related elements. (Merriam-Webster)

In the midst of what may seem chaotic around us, when it seems impossible some days to lead well in all areas of life, all leaders need to find a rhythm for their life.

Rhythm in professional life. I chose the word rhythm rather than balance, because I seldom feel truly balanced in my work. Some days it takes all I’ve got to get done what I need to do. And other days I have margin in my time and could work or go home early. I’m trying to find the right rhythm that allows me to complete certain realistic goals and objectives, but doesn’t overly consume me or place undue burdens on my family or me.

Honestly, this is a challenge for me. I’ve been working close to full-time since I was 12-years-old. All I know to do some days is work. But I’m learning (it took me a long time) that there is more to life than work. I still want to be as productive – even more so in these years as an empty-nester – so, I’m trying to develop a healthy rhythm.

Rhythm in relational/social life. Social media hasn’t made this easier. Just last night I saw a Facebook post from a dozen or so high school friends (all girls) who recently got together for a social. I haven’t seen some of them in close to 40 years, but instantly I was a teenager again. I wanted to “stalk” each of them. Where are they today? What are they doing? It was fun. But while I was interested in their life I was visiting my son and his family that live across country from us. Now, which of these should have had my greater attention? (Duh!)

I have a friend who says, “Be fully present wherever you are at the time.” I’m not the best at remembering that, but it’s a great discipline and could be part of creating a healthy rhythm. You can’t be everywhere with everyone. But you can’t be fully with the people with you right now.

Rhythm in our spiritual, emotional and physical life. Frankly, the past year with a pandemic, new pressures in leadership, moving cross country, and changes in my work flow, it’s been more difficult to exercise, eat well, and stay physically fit. I’m fairly disciplined in my daily routine quiet times, but even those have suffered some.

One struggle for me is that for the first time in years, I don’t have a gym in the building where I work. I used to slip away during the day for a needed workout. I’m having to reestablish new rhythms to keep myself healthy in all areas of my life. And it is a work in progress.

In fact, in this new season of leadership, all of these are continuous works in progress.

But every leader I know needs rhythm right now more than ever.

Where in your life do you need a new rhythm in order to be successful in that area?

A Major Communication Barrier On Every Team

By | Church Revitalization, Culture, Leadership, Team Leadership | No Comments

There has been a major communication barrier on every team I have led. It is huge, and yet often overlooked.

Most effective teams at some point will do a personality assessment of team members. I work a lot with Myers Briggs, but there are certainly other great ones. At one time have probably taken most of them, All of them can be helpful at some level.

But this major communication barrier, while it can be picked up some by a personality assessment, is still often overlooked (or misunderstood) on most teams.

And, of course, this barrier involves a difference in people. If you’ve lead teams at all you could probably predict that.

A major communication barrier on all teams:

  • Those who speak with and listen for details.
  • Those who speak with and listen for generalities.

You could call it “big-picture oriented” and “detail-oriented” – and a host of other terms. And, again, this concept is certainly picked up in personality types and assessments, but the nuance of this principal is huge. If you don’t understand that people speak and listen differently you will continually be miscommunicating.

This is true in all relationships. It’s true in my marriage. In fact, it is our biggest source of conflict if we allow it to be. I speak and listen more in generalities. My wife speaks and listens more for details.

For illustration purposes, when I lead a team I rarely tell them exactly how I want something done. I paint a big picture vision, have lofty ideas, and a general concept of what things might look like. Sometimes a person on our team who listens in details misunderstands my point. If they don’t understand this about me, (and I have to continually remind people of our differences) they may think I gave them a specific directive, while I was only sharing a very general concept.

(And if you are wired for more details you’re still waiting for a clearer definition of this principle. But that only further illustrates my point.)

Think about your team for a minute. There will be huge variations of this principle among them. No two people are just alike. But if you had to assess – who are the people who speak and listen for generalities? And who listen and speak for more details?

There might lie a major communication barrier on your team.

Closing note: I have worked with a lot of churches (and several businesses) through mergers, conflict, and team dynamics. If you’d like me to help your team know each other and collaborate better together – and ultimately be healthier – please let me know.

Something No One Will Tell You About Leadership

By | Church, Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership | No Comments

There is something no one is going to tell you about leadership.

You will have to learn this one on your own. It is not that they do not want you to know. No one is trying to keep this from you. It isn’t a secret. But it simply comes to you by experience as a leader.

Here’s a nugget of wisdom you may need:

If you’re a leader, you’ll never get to a point of really being satisfied.

No one will tell you that about leadership.

You’ll always want more. Bigger. Better. Next.

You’ll want more growth. More leaders. And you’ll want more from you and your team.

And if you don’t know it you may falsely assume something is wrong with you.

The reality is you can be content without being satisfied. I have defined contentment as “being satisfied right now with where God has allowed you to be right now.” Be content with that. He has you where you need to be for now. And He’s using this season in you. (That’s a sermon for another day.)

Satisfaction is achieving all you can.

It’s being at your best all the time. In every area of the organization.

No leader I know has done that yet. 

Leadership is all about going somewhere new. Doing something better. Achieving more than we have currently – ultimately for the people and organizations we are trying to lead. And your lack of complete satisfaction is what keeps you leading.

And now you know.

Join Nate and I for the Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast. We are always looking for new content, so if there are leadership issues you would like us to cover, please let me know. And subscribe now, so you won’t miss the next one.

(NOTE: If you are looking for a leadership/organizational coach or consultant, keep me in mind. My schedule is opening to more opportunities. You can easily email me at ron.edmondson@gmail.com.)

10 Ways to Know You’re Managing More Than Leading

By | Church, Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership | One Comment

I’ve written a fair amount about management versus leadership. I have a chapter about the subject in my book The Mythical Leader. I won’t make you go read the book to know I believe both are valuable to any organization. We need good leadership and good management. But this is a leadership blog. And if you want to be a leader, you can’t focus more on managing the organization than you do on leading the organization forward.

How do you know when you are?

I have learned by experience some ways to tell when my leadership has turned to management – and when it is happening in our organization.

10 ways to know you’re managing more than leading:

You no longer take risks.

Management is about guiding healthy systems. Again, we need good management to support leadership. Leadership, however, is about moving things forward into unknown territory. That always involves a risk at some level.

Failure has been virtually eliminated by rules and procedures.

In a perfectly managed structure you can keep most mistakes from happening. Whenever a mistake happens, you simply create a new rule or tweak the systems to keep it from happening again. Leadership always stretches systems. You will make many mistakes along the way. It’s part of leading.

You have a system already in place for everything you are going to do.

If everything in the organization is clearly defined then you don’t need leadership. Management will work fine for this.

You no longer need or seek outside advice.

This is not always a fool-proof determinant. You may have enough leadership of new growth within your own organization. But often it means you simply aren’t  looking for anything that is going to stretch what you are currently doing. In my experience, that is often found outside those who can only see what they see in their current context.

Things are comfortable.

There is often miscommunication and the awkwardness of change occurring in leadership. Which makes leadership frustrating, messy, and uncomfortable

Change is always initially resisted – even by those in leadership.

In a management culture change is rarer. But in a leadership culture, there is a continual stream of change. You can almost guess the difference as soon as you suggest a way of doing something that’s different from how you are doing things now.

The way you do things is valued more than what you are trying to do.

I have a friend who worked for a very management cultured organization. He exceeded every expectation set for him – by far. All the goals set for him were achieved. But he didn’t follow the processes to get there. He hadn’t done anything immoral, illegal, or even unethical. He simply didn’t follow all the rules. They let him go.

In a culture dominated by management the “process” is valued even more than the future reality of an unrealized vision.

Resources are no longer being stretched.

I talked with a pastor recently whose church has taken on 38 partners during COVID. And they aren’t a huge church. They simply saw needs and felt led of God to try and meet them. But talking about stretching an organization. Leadership cultures stretch the organization beyond its current capacities.

You have no horses that need to be reined in.

This phrase was said to me by a pastor friend recently in regards to a new staff person on his team. He’s hit the ground running faster than current structures will allow. But my friend likes it that way. In a leadership culture, you know you can stretch the structure as needed in time. But you want horses that are raring to gallop without the control of a bit in the mouth.

You rebel against a post like this.

There are those more wired for management and those more wired for leadership. I’ve worked with both, and do I need to say again I think we need both? But good leadership will frustrate good management in some form, simply for the reasons previously stated. In a strictly management culture talk about “stretching” and “running” and “changing” is often faced with hearty resistance.

And if you think you are in a management culture, just float this post around the office and see how it is received.

I’m curious, which of these are currently true of your organization? In your assessment, are you more of a leadership culture in need of good management? Or, are you in a managed culture that often rebels against leadership?

RELP – Episode 23 – Bad Decisions Leaders Make in Decline or Plateau

By | Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership, Podcast | One Comment

In this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast Ron and Chandler Vannoy talk about Bad Decisions Leaders Make in times of Decline or Plateau in the organization.

Some statistics reported have said about 75-80% of churches (even as high as 90 I’ve read) are in decline or plateau.

I’m thankful to have served in churches and business in fast growth mode.

But, equally important in the formation of me as a leader, is that I’ve had experience in leading through difficult days also. Most of my times leading with periods of decline were in the business world, although I have entered a couple churches in the midst of difficult days. So, I’ve led through periods of decline; and faced many plateaus in business and in the church. Of course, those times are less fun than in the growth periods.

Much of what I’ve learned in this podcast though I learned through suffering through my own bad decisions as a leader during periods of decline or plateau.

In this episode, we discuss bad decisions leaders make in times of decline or plateau.

We are hearing from many leaders who are enjoying these podcast. We know they are simple. It is intended to be a quick listen to a conversation between father and son – (and in this one – father and friend) who are both struggling to figure out leadership in our individual contexts.

As always, I hope this episode helps you be a better leader.

Would you do me a favor? If you enjoyed listening to this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast would you subscribe, share and leave a positive review about this podcast? We are enjoying doing this together, but it is especially encouraging when we know it is helping other church leaders. Thank you in advance for doing this. It is a great help.

We will be recording more episodes soon. Let us know leadership issues you would like us to cover.

Also be sure to check out all the great podcasts on the Lifeway Leadership Podcast Network.

Perception is Reality for a Leader

By | Church Revitalization, Leadership, Organizational Leadership, Team Leadership | No Comments

Perception is often reality for a leader. Over the years, I have learned how a team sees you as a leader is often more important than who you really are as a leader.

Obviously, character is most important. Integrity matters even more than perception. You’ll often be misunderstood and you can’t please everyone. In fact, somedays, as a leader – it seems – you can’t please anyone.

So, as a leader, I’d rather know my character is genuine. I want to be loved most by those who know me best. 

That matters most. 

The reality of the success of a leader, however, may depend more on how you are viewed by the people you lead than it does on what you do as a leader.

Perception is often reality for a leader. 

I’ve learned, often the hard way, that the two are not always the same. You can have the greatest integrity, know all the right leadership techniques, and have a track record of success, but the way people you are trying to lead perceive you will determine the quality of your leadership – almost more than anything else. 

  • Do  people perceive you as an agent of empowerment or an agent of control?
  • Are you perceived as more a champion for their ideas or a killer of their dreams?
  • Do they perceive you more as a proponent of change or a protector of tradition?
  • Are you perceived as a friend of progress or the enemy of success?
  • Do they believe you will protect them when their back is turned?
  • Are you perceived as having their best interest ahead of your  own?
  • Do they genuinely perceive that your heart is fully committed to the team – or are you seeking your next best opportunity?
  • Are you perceived as likely to get angry when mistakes are made – or be grace-giving?
  • Do people perceive you as approachable more than you are harsh? 

These are all perceptions. And perceptions are often reality for a leader. 

Much of your success as a leader will depend on the perception you create among the people you attempt to lead. People will follow closer when their perception of you is that you are for them more than against them.

Perception is ultimately created by how you lead, but sometimes – just as vision does – perception leaks. So, people form perceptions regardless of whether or not you do anything. Perceptions may or may not be reality, but as a leader, I must be keenly aware of this principle. 

Candidly. I’ve seen this go in seasons in my leadership. I’ve often had to reinforce the perception in people’s minds about my leadership. Often this is after a busy or stressful time, when their is tension on the team, or during times of change. The team needs to perceive I’m still the leader they want to follow.

Sometimes, I need to ask pointed questions – (I’ve even done anonymous surveys) – to gauge people’s current perceptions of my leadership. 

But I must be aware that my perception is often reality as a leader. 

If you’re still trying to get your mind around my thoughts, here is an example: 

Once we had make some rather significant changes to our organizational structure. It meant fewer people reported directly to me. When we announced the changes I reiterated my open door policy and availability to our staff would continue. People who work with me long have learned this is how I lead.

But human nature kicks in for all of us. And change evokes an emotional response, which helps shape people’s perceptions. I knew I needed to take intentional actions in the weeks following to make sure the perception of my leadership is as strong as my actual leadership.

Guard how people perceive you as a leader. 

Join Nate and I for the Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast. And subscribe now, so you won’t miss the next one.

7 Ways We Make People Feel Unwelcome At Our Church

By | Christians, Church, Church Revitalization | 2 Comments

Over the years, I have seen signs like the one in this post and the first word that pops in my head is “Closed”. Anything which seems exclusive to the people already on the inside makes me as an outsider feel unwelcome to the church.

I’m sure that’s not the intent this church has with this sign. It’s hopefully a very welcoming church. I also know there are circumstances which make some churches have to limit their parking. Again, probably not the intent, but signs like this seem harsh to me as someone unfamiliar with a specific church.

Over the years, Cheryl and I have visited dozens of churches. Whenever we travel we try to find a church to attend. I’ve spoken at and consulted with many churches in all types and sizes. We had the opportunity in Dallas to “shop” churches. It was my first time to ever seek out a church. Honestly, it wasn’t a wonderful experience.

So, from very personal experience –

Ways we make people feel unwelcome at our church:

Only do “church” on Sunday.

When we make no effort to build community with people who visit we let people know by our actions – or lack of actions – that we are comfortable with the people in the church now. And that there is little room for new friendships. (This could include not reaching out to people we haven’t seen in a while.) From our experience in Dallas, Cheryl and I visited several churches, filled out a visitor card, and never heard from anyone.

BTW, this may include only valuing the programs and activities that happen “in the church building” and not valuing people’s “ministries” outside the building.

Don’t act like you’re happy to see people.

When a church has no one greeting in the parking lots or at the doors it feels very unwelcoming to visitors who have never been there. Sometimes we have greeters, but they are only talking to people they already know. (In fairness, Sunday is their “catch up” day with friends, but again, it is very unwelcoming to visitors.)

I was once the guest preacher at a church. Not one person greeted us in the church. I literally had to go find somebody to tell me when to preach. Not one other person besides the person I found ever spoke to me. I realize that’s the extreme but I wonder how many times visitors feel that same way in our own churches.

Confuse people who don’t know your building.

Display confusing signage or, perhaps even worse, have none at all and visitors will feel unwelcome. I can’t tell you how many churches we have been to where it was very confusing which door to enter and where to go once we entered the door. At times, if I weren’t the speaker – as an introvert especially – I might have left. (Just being honest.)

In fairness, that could have easily been said of churches where I have pastored. But it was something we paid a lot of attention to – including adding people as “hosts”. You can’t always move walls in a confusing building layout, but you can mitigate part of the problem with good signage and friendly people.

Make it obvious and awkward to be a “visitor”.

This happens when people only talk to the only people they already know. Another way is to make visitors feel very conspicuous. I can’t believe it, but some churches we’ve visited still have visitors stand up maybe or raise their hands – and keep them up until an usher comes by to hand a visitor card.

We once attended a church which made visitors stand up, introduce themselves, and tell why they came that day. Talk about awkward. Again, that’s extreme, but it certainly caused me to review how we make visitors feel unwelcome in our church.

Have your own language.

Some churches – and denominations – notoriously develop acronyms for everything. When we pretend everyone already knows what we are talking about – such as differentiating between VBS and Vacation Bible School – we make outsiders feel left out of the conversation. (Even with the name of it can be confusing as to what it really is without some description being given.)

Another thing which can be very unwelcoming is to use personal names during the announcements. No one knows who John is except the regulars – even if John is the youth pastor. (“We’ll meet at Sally’s for the ice cream social. See Joe if you want more information.” – makes a visitor feel unwelcome at a church.)

Have only “closed” groups within the church.

It could be any group – Bible studies, service groups, but when any small group has been together more than a few years – with no new people entering the group – it’s likely a closed group. A new person coming in will not feel welcome. They won’t know the inside jokes. They don’t know the names of everyone’s children. They will feel very left out when personal conversation begins.

The best solution, in my experience, is to continually be starting new groups. (I realize the challenge here for small churches. I’ve pastored those too. You have to get creative. You’ll probably have to have hard conversations. And you certainly have to cast vision for why this is important.)

Beat people up without giving them hope.

When we are clearer about how bad people are than how great the Gospel is we can make outsiders – who may not yet be living the life we would suggest for them – like they don’t belong and have no chance of getting there. We should teach on sin – and not just certain sins, but all sin, including what I call the 3 G’s – gossip, gluttony and greed.

My goal is to always let people leave with the hope of the Gospel. It’s actually the only hope we all have. And visitors can’t find that kind of hope anywhere else in the world.

Those are a few of my observations that make people feel unwelcome at a church. Again, none of us would purposively make people feel unwelcome at a church. But we must be careful we haven’t done so by our unintentional actions.

5 Things I Naturally Control as a Senior Leader

By | Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership, Organizational Leadership | No Comments

There are some things the senior leader will naturally control – whether intentional or unintentional. 

Having planted two churches and two revitalization churches I am frequently asked about what things do I try to control and which did I release to others.

I love the question. It is one all leaders need to ask themselves – frequently.

The leadership lid you create will be in whatever area you choose to control.

I believe this strongly and it’s why I often discipline myself not to have an answer. I purposively choose to give things away to others on our team – things they can’t do better than me and things I simply shouldn’t be doing.

As much as I love delegation, however, there are some things a senior leader will naturally control.

5 things I naturally control as a senior leader:


Senior leadership should make sure the vision of the organization is always in the minds of people. If they don’t, no one will embrace the vision. In fact, there will likely be competing visions within the organization.

Staff culture

Senior leadership plays the primary role in setting the staff culture. Things such as staff morale, organizational structure, and the working atmosphere are greatly embedded and formed by the senior leader – good or bad.

The organization’s pursuit of excellence

People will never push for more excellence than the level expected, led, and lived by senior leadership.

The moral value of the organization 

The character and integrity of the organization will reflect senior leadership’s character and integrity. Period.

The velocity of change

Senior leadership sets the speed in which change and innovation is welcome in the organization. If they are slow to make decisions, the organization will run slowly. And vice-versa.

There are things, which by default senior leadership will naturally control.

Join Nate and I for the Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast. And subscribe now, so you won’t miss the next one.

RELP – Episode 22 – Unseen Leadership Traits of Great Leaders

By | Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership, Podcast | No Comments

In this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast Ron and Chandler Vannoy talk about 7 Unspoken, Unseen Leadership Traits That Make Leaders Great.

There are parts of leadership you won’t read on a job description when they are telling you about the place you will work. There are traits of a leader which are unseen – often unknown. These traits have to be tested and you won’t know the traits are there until the test is complete, but these traits are what prove a leader to be a great leader.

I like to call it the “backside of leadership.”

In this episode, we discuss unseen leadership traits of great leaders.

We are hearing from many leaders who are enjoying these podcast. We know they are simple. It is intended to be a quick listen to a conversation between father and son – (and in this one – father and friend) who are both struggling to figure out leadership in our individual contexts.

As always, I hope this episode helps you be a better leader.

Would you do me a favor? If you enjoyed listening to this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast would you subscribe, share and leave a positive review about this podcast? We are enjoying doing this together, but it is especially encouraging when we know it is helping other church leaders. Thank you in advance for doing this. It is a great help.

We will be recording more episodes soon. Let us know leadership issues you would like us to cover.

Also be sure to check out all the great podcasts on the Lifeway Leadership Podcast Network.