RELP – Episode 7 – Common Derailments in Leading Church Revitalization

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In this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast, Ron and Nate discuss common derailments in leading church revitalization.

I (Ron) have been working in and around church revitalization for close to 20 years. The first church where I served as pastor, after leaving the business world and entering vocational ministry, was a small, rural church that needed revitalization. Then, after starting two churches – one from our living room – we moved to help revitalize a large, established church. Most recently, I served as an interim in another church needing some revitalization. (This was my home church.) We have seen God do some incredible things along the way.

I am convinced most churches can be revived with intentionality.

Through these experiences, I have noticed some common derailments in leading church revitalization. When these are present it becomes very difficult, in my opinion, for the church to ever recover and grow again. Many of these are simply unknowns going into the process. Sometimes pastors miss them.

Nate and I discuss some of these in this episode. I hope it is helpful.

Would you do me a favor? It would be great if you would subscribe, share and leave a positive review about this podcast. We are enjoying doing this together, but it is especially encouraging when we know it is helping other church leaders. Thank you in advance for doing this. It is a great help.

Also, let me know leadership issues you would like us to cover on future episodes.

And be sure to check out all the great podcasts on the Lifeway Leadership Podcast Network.

10 Reasons I’d Encourage Church Revitalization Instead of Church Planting

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My story is simple. While enjoying starting a church, my established home church was struggling. It caused me to question what would become of all the established churches. That burning question in my heart lined with a church in need of revitalization. I agreed to be their pastor. The rest is my history. We have help start two churches and helped revitalize three others.

Because of my experience, I often encourage want-to-be church planters to consider church revitalization.

I realize church revitalization doesn’t have all the attraction of church planting. But the attraction in church revitalization is the same as church planting. It is the mission. Church revitalization isn’t for everyone. For some it might be just what God has for them.

10 reasons to consider church revitalization:

You love the thought of restoring history. 

Our last two churches were over 100 years old – the last close to 200 years. Wouldn’t it be a shame to see that history come to an end – if we can reverse the decline?

You are ready to go to work now. 

There are far more opportunities in church revitalization. I have heard that near 90% of established churches are in decline or plateaued. There’s work to be done immediately.

You like having an established base of financial support. 

Many established churches have loyal supporters. Sometimes those are the ones that never want any change, but many times those people are just waiting for leadership to take them somewhere better than where they are today.

You love inter-generational ministry. 

In an established church, if you start to reach younger people, you’ll see a blending of generations. That’s a beautiful experience. And personally, I think it’s healthy and a very Biblical model of church.

You like a challenge. 

You will face opposition if you try to change things from where people are comfortable. These are not the same challenges found in a church plant. But you agreed to walk by faith, right? And you’ll have that opportunity in church revitalization.

You won’t run from every conflict.

In church revitalization, you must stay the good course. The mission is too vital.

You enjoy healthy structure. 

Granted, it might not be healthy, but you’ll find structure. And, as long as you’re not doing away with structure completely, you can usually tweak structure to be healthy again.

You are Kingdom-minded. 

Church revitalizers, like church planters, have to see the bigger picture. There are more Kingdom dollars being under-utilized in stagnant churches than may ever be invested in church planting. What are we going to do about it? If you’d like to know the answer – maybe you’re a candidate for revitalization.

You can endure a long-term approach. 

It likely won’t happen immediately. In church planting, we could change things every weekend. That’s not necessarily true in the established church.

Certainly we saw some immediate, very positive changes and the church began to grow quickly. The best changes take time, but they pay off dramatically.

You truly love the local church. 

I didn’t love everything about the church I pastored – or the established church I attended all my life until surrendering to ministry. But I truly love the local church. Enough that I’d be willing to invest energies in trying to save one.

There are many churches who are ready to grow again with the right pastoral leadership. I encourage some of our eager pastors to consider allowing God to use you in revitalizing an established church.

If you get a chance, listen to my new leadership podcast. And please subscribe, share and leave a positive review.

5 Suggestions if You want People to Listen to You

By | Church, Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership | No Comments

If you are a leader, then it is critically important that the people you are trying to lead hear you. Not just pretend to be listening while you ramble in a meeting, but actually absorb what you are trying to say to them. You want people to listen to you.

How do you do that?

Here are 5 suggestions if you want people to listen to you:

Value the person.

No one follows someone willingly who they don’t believe cares for them. Teddy Roosevelt’s famous line “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care” is true.

Don’t expect people to want to learn from you until they know you have their best interest at stake and that you care for them personally – not simply what they can do for you or the organization. We listen to leaders we trust.

Paint a great vision.

You have to give people something worth following. It needs to stretch them, while still being attainable by risk, faith and hard work. When they know there’s a glimmer of hope to the finish line, they’ll be more willing to learn what it takes to attain it.

Communicate it frequently.

Even the best vision fades over time. People get bored. Andy Stanley uses the phrase “vision leaks”. If you want to maintain your audience of followers, you have to keep reminding them why you are doing what you are doing.

Tell compelling stories.

People are motivated by example. They want to know that what they are doing makes a difference. People will be more likely to seek your input if they know you are leading them to something of value and importance.

Share in the reward.

People only feel valued when they get to celebrate the victory. If all the recognition goes to the leader, the follower feels taken advantage of to some degree. If you want people to keep listening – listen to them – share the credit. Celebrate often

Check out our new podcast. And please subscribe, review and share.

7 Traits Needed to Effectively Lead Change

By | Change, Church, Church Revitalization, Innovation, Leadership | No Comments

If you want to be in leadership get comfortable with change. The best leaders have the traits to effectively lead change.

Every leader deals with change, but in my experience, some handle it better than others. There are change agent leaders who seem to have an innate gifting at leading through change.

I’ve observed some common traits needed to effectively lead change.

7 traits for effectively lead change:


It doesn’t have to be your design. You simply want progress towards the overall vision. You are never stubborn on matters that seem to have no vision-altering value. Instead, you navigate towards a solution, letting others have “their” way. Everyone walks away feeling as though they have won.


Effectively leading change means you are willing to receive criticism and still move forward. You know how to filter through what is valid criticism – worth hearing – and what’s simply a venting of personal interest. Because of this you unwaveringly push through the junk which clouds progress.


You value the opinions of other people and work hard to gain their trust. Knowing that ultimate change can’t happen without human capital, you are constantly investing in relationships. Networking is one of a change agents greatest tools.


You realize there are steps to take and carefully choose the timing of when to take them. It is like you have a keen sense of discernment when it comes to knowing when to pull the trigger, when to wait, and when to pull the plug completely.


You are able to see paths to success others can’t yet see. Change often happens because someone chose to be creative – even when it might not mesh with current structures. Effective change is one of the best forms of art in the field of leadership. This takes creativity.


You make change for a specific purpose and never waste a change. Since you know that every change has the potential to make or break a team, you work diligently to bring the best results.


You follow through on commitments made and sees the change to fruition. You don’t give up until the post evaluation is complete and the lessons of change have been learned.

Think about your experience. Who are some of the best leaders who could effectively lead change?

Check out our new podcast where we unpack many of these issues – and add real stories to illustrate them.

RELP – Episode 6 – Attracting First Chair Leaders

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In this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast, Ron and Nate discuss attracting first chair leaders.

I have been in the senior leadership role for almost 30 years now. My goal was always to try to find the very best leaders I could find to add to our team. That meant sometimes adding people who could do my job as well as me – and many times better.

People have often asked me if I could ever sit in a second-chair leadership position again. Great question. I will share more about that in a future post/podcast, but the answer is definitely yes! But there are a few things which would have to be in place in order for me to be comfortable doing so.

Nate and I talk about some of those in this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast. Attracting first chair leaders requires a certain culture. The first chair leader plays a big role in making this possible. Join us for this important conversation.

And if you are a second chair leader, feel free to chime in with the comments on this post of what it takes for you to remain in your position. If you are a first chair leader, consider if you are creating the kind of environment that attracts first chair leaders.

Would you do me a favor? It would be great if you would subscribe, share and leave a positive review about this podcast. It will help get the word out about it. Thank you in advance for doing so.

And be sure to check out all the great podcasts on the Lifeway Leadership Podcast Network.

7 Indicators It’s Not a Good Time for Change

By | Church, Church Revitalization, Leadership, Organizational Leadership, Team Leadership | No Comments

I’ve never been a proponent of the saying “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Sometimes you need a change and nothing is “broken”. It just isn’t as good as it could be, it’s keeping other things from being better, or it’s soon going to be broke unless you change. But there are indicators of times not to change.

Here are 7 times not to change:

When there isn’t a compelling purpose.

There should always be a why. It might be as simple as if you don’t change you’re going to be bored out of your mind, but have a reason before you introduce change.

When there are no good leaders behind it.

You need people who buy into the change. If a change has value you can usually find supporters. They may be few and may do nothing more than speak up for the change. If no one can get excited about the change except you, you probably need to raise up some supporters before moving forward. (There are rare exceptions to this one, but again, they are rare.)

When you haven’t defined a win.

Changing before you know what success looks like will keep you running in a lot of ineffective directions without much progress.

When the loss is more expensive than the win.

Sometimes the cost just isn’t worth it. You can’t justify the people and resource expense for the potential return.

When the leader isn’t motivated.

There are times to wait if senior leadership can’t get excited or at least support the change if push back develops. Eventually, without their support, you’ll be less likely to experience sustaining, successful change.

When too many other things are changing.

Any organization or group of people can only handle so much change at a time. This requires great discernment on the part of leaders to know when there is too much change occurring and it is best to wait for something new.

When an organization is in crisis mode.

If a ship is sinking, fix the leak or bail some water – before choosing your next destination. When things are in crisis, is not the time to make a ton of changes. Catch your breath first, make sure a core of people is solid behind the vision, and take careful steps to plan intentional, helpful and needed change.

This isn’t intended as a checklist of indicators of times not time for change. I would never want to stop someone from making needed changes. In fact, I love change. I do try to encourage better change and I hope this helps. Check out my leadership podcast where we discuss issues/topics like this in a conversational format.

5 Things To Do When in a Learning Position

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This is a follow up post. Recently I posted “The Tension Between Staying in a Learning Position and Jumping into the Lead Position“. The point was there is a fine line between when a person is ready to be in a senior leadership role and needs to remain in a learning position. The post was to help discern the proper time to make the transition.

For example, I know some youth pastors who will some day be senior pastors. When’s the right time to make the jump and when should they stay in their current position? I know some entry-level managers in large organizations who could move to a higher position in a smaller organization. When should they jump? That was the idea behind the post.

Whenever I talk about this issue it stirs a discussion offline.

One repeated question:

How does one manage the tension well while in a learning position until the transition to a leading position takes place?

I would first say make sure there is a tension. These suggestions are intended for those who sense they are being called to a senior leadership position – someday – but haven’t made the jump for whatever reason. They are living in the “tension”. The advice is hopefully good at any stage of life, but this was my specific intent of the original post and this one.

But also know that you’re asking the right question. You should never waste a wait. God is doing something where you are right now. He’s working behind the scenes in ways you cannot see. So, you do your part. It’s good if you’re in a waiting position to be asking these type questions.

Here are 5 suggestions when in a learning position:

Recruit a mentor.

Everyone needs a mentor – at every stage of life – but especially if you want to move upward in positional authority. Find someone who is in a position of responsibility at the next level you hope to eventually be and ask them to meet with you on a semi-regular basis. Don’t expect it to be often. They’re likely busy people. I’ve had mentors I met with only every few months. Others were more frequent.

Consider also, the mentor doesn’t always have to be in the same field you are in, just with similar level of responsibility as the next level on your radar. The same would be ideal, but not always available.

When you arrive at the meeting, don’t waste their time. Do the hard work of preparing for the meeting. Have questions prepared in advance. And make sure you take notes. It’s helpful for review later and demonstrates how serious you are taking the advice.

Set a tentative timeline in your mind for transition.

How long do you realistically think you should attempt to be at the next level of leadership? Ask yourself probing questions, such as, “If I knew I was going to be here 3 more years – without any changes in my level of responsibility – am I going to get frustrated?”

A realistic timeline is probably not 2 months, but a year certainly could be. And so could five years be. Much of that depends on your current heart for what you’re doing now, how much you’re thinking about where you need to be next, and how much tension there is between those two. No one can answer this but you. You’ll have to soul search.

Set a realistic timeline, but then don’t bind yourself to it either – that’s dangerous. Life happens and ultimately God is in control, but this gives you a sense of hope and perspective. If you think you’re three years out from a transition, then you know you have three years to grow where you’re at currently. It’s not the time to be looking actively, but time to excel in what you’re doing. If you know in a year you’re going to be bored to death, then you know how fast you have to respond to seek another position.

Discerning this timeline is a good talk through with a mentor or other people who know you well and believe in you.

Prepare for what’s next.

You should always be doing this. Even if you never moved to a position with more authority you should prepare for what’s next. The needs within our jobs are always changing because the people and cultures we encounter are always changing.

You should always see yourself in a learning position, so learn all you can. Take notes as you observe other leaders. Read books. Attend conferences. Build your network. Don’t waste the wait.

Stay very loyal and faithful to the job you have now.

Please don’t accept any of my other suggestions without doing this one.

Do your best work every single day in the job you are currently doing. Respect the leadership where you are now. Learn what you can from them too – even what you would do differently some day. Finish well. This is what you’d hope for from people you will one day lead. It is the right thing to do.

Staying loyal is only fair to the opportunity you’ve been given, but it also protects your resume. Never ruin a relationship where you are – it will only come back to hurt you later. Plus, staying faithful as you wait says a lot about your character.

Keep your eyes and ears open.

In my experience, if you’re asking these type questions in a learning position, it’s only a matter of time before you’ll be looking to make the transition to a lead position. It could be years, so don’t live in the future when the present needs your attention, but opportunities are often closer than you think.

In my most recent transition, Cheryl and I sensed for several months that God was doing something new in our life. We didn’t know what or where, but entertained several opportunities. Both of us listened and had conversations. We didn’t jump until it was clearer. But when an opportunity was presented which lined with our hearts it was much easier to discern the move. (I should say it was nothing like we thought it would look, but we knew God was in it.) Had we not been watching and listening, we might have missed a God-sized open door.

Check out my podcast where we unpack issues like this even more. I’d love for you to share it, subscribe and offer a kind review.

Fighting Tension – Stay in a Supporting Leadership Role – or Jump into the Lead Role

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There is a fighting tension among many young leadership. The tension is whether to stay in a supporting leadership role – or jump into the lead role.

Young leaders I work with ask this question a lot – are they ready to be in a lead position?

I want to be helpful. Most of these people are leaders now – usually leading some area of ministry, but they aren’t in the senior leadership position. But they believe they want to be someday.

I wish I knew the magical answer of when to make the transition, but I don’t. You can jump too soon. And you can wait too long.

You can jump before you’re ready. I’ve seen some leaders make the switch to senior leader only to find out they wish they had prepared a little longer. Some then go back under another senior leader. And, sadly, I’ve seen some completely crash and burn – and take years to recover. Some never go back to the lead position.

I’ve seen others wait long after they were ready. They missed opportunities in leadership and, in the process, they frustrated everyone, including themselves, because they didn’t make the move. Staying anywhere too long can cause frustration to a team – and the one who stays.

It’s a fine line – or a quadrant of the circle – as the case may be in our diagram.

So, my advice, for the leader wondering when to make the jump to senior leadership is pretty simple.

When you’ve lived in the fighting tension too long – it’s time to jump.

What’s the tension? Well, I believe you’ll know it when you’re living it. It is probably why you would read a post like this, but let me give some symptoms.

7 ways to tell the tension has gone long enough:

When the urge to try is greater than the fear of jumping.

When you’ve maxed out where you currently are in growth opportunities. And it frustrates you nearly everyday.

When you find yourself questioning senior leadership – all senior leadership – good or bad leadership – because you think you could do it better. (This is always a good sign.)

When you think more about what could be if you were in the leading position than what could be if you stay in the learning position. (Be sure to take notes during this season.)

When you believe in your heart you’ve been called to lead at the senior level. (It needs to be a calling.)

When those who know you best think you’re ready. (Don’t be afraid to ask.)

When senior leadership positions continue to make themselves available or come to your attention. (Is someone trying to tell you something?)

This post is intended to help process a question I’m frequently asked.

Please understand, these are just my thoughts. Also, when you are in the season of sensing you are ready, never be arrogant, flippant or act like you know it all, because you don’t. You will have to trust me with this one. I will write more about what to do in this season in my next post.

We should always learn all we can, but the fact is, you may not know until you try. Most of what you learn will come when you are actually doing the job. When you are finally ready, and you make the jump to senior leadership, that’s when the learning really begins to take place. On-the-job training is the best kind.

But preparing for the big jump is critically important also. Don’t rush the next step because of impatience. Just as you can’t go back to high school or that first attempt at college – it will never be quite the same after you make the jump.

This is why it’s a fine line – hence the fighting tension. Check out my leadership podcast where we discuss issues like this regularly.

RELP – Episode 5 – Classic Mistakes New Leader Make

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In this episode of The Ron Edmondson Leadership Podcast, Ron and Nate discuss classic mistakes new leaders make when entering a leadership role.

I, Ron, have had the occasion to being many new leadership roles. I have led in the business world, government, nonprofits and the church. Plus, I have hired and coached hundreds of leaders. Along the way I have learned a few things – much of it by doing things the wrong way.

This is such an important topic for new leaders to consider. The way you begin a new leadership position often determines how well you do and how long you stay. The trust you earn, change you’re able to realize, and your own mental well-being is greatly determined by those initial days.

It is important to start well, therefore we must avoid these classic mistakes new leaders make. That’s what we will talk about on this issue.

Would you take time to write a review (a nice one preferred), share this podcast with others, and subscribe so you do not miss an episode? Launching anything new greatly depends on the support of people to get the word out about it. Thanks to those who have already done this.

In the coming months, we will open up to some of your individual leadership concerns and questions. If you have something you would like us to address, please leave a comment or send us a message. We want this to be a helpful resource for you in leadership.

This podcast is part of the Lifeway Leadership Podcast Network. We are excited to be a part of such a rich platform with so many other great podcasts. Check out all the great resources provided by Lifeway Leadership.

5 Hidden Objections to Change

By | Change, Church, Church Planting, Church Revitalization, Leadership | 2 Comments

I’ve learned there are some common – often hidden – objections to change. These are secret objections.

No one admits to these, but they are real. In fact, they may be the biggest obstacles you’ll have to face in implementing change.

Show me an objection to change and you’re almost guaranteed to find one of these hidden in the crowd somewhere. And you’ll probably find multiples of them.

These are often hard to admit, but they are true. Understanding them can help you better lead change.

5 hidden objections to change:


Let’s face it – we want what we want. What’s comfortable requires less sacrifice on our part.


We like our ideas and don’t believe we can enjoy the ideas of others, as much as our own. The way I want to do things is best, isn’t it?


We are afraid of what could happen if we change. Change might launch a whole series of change. That’s scary.


We want to make the decisions for our life and resist when others are making them for us. The reality is most of us have a very real and sometimes hidden desire for control.


We are satisfied with current status. Things are being done the way they’ve always been done. This is the way things are supposed to be. And we like it this way.

To be clear, I don’t believe we can continue to grow most of the time without change. Change is all around us. Therefore, failing to embrace change only leads to more severe problems later. But that doesn’t mean change is easy.

Sometimes understanding the hidden reasons behind the objection helps the leader better address the situation.

What hidden objections to change have you seen?

Check out my new leadership podcast on the Lifeway Podcast Network or wherever you listen to podcasts. In an upcoming episode, we will address these hidden objections and ways to address them.