A recent college graduate from our church sent me an email recently. She’s struggled with her spiritual past. She became a believer early in life, got off track for a while, and now she’s on fire for God, Her dilemma is whether she lost her salvation during that time. She wonders what would have happened to her eternally had she died during her time of wandering. She wanted to know why I believe in eternal security.
I realize I’m stepping in dangerous territory with this discussion question. This issue divides people theologically as much as any other. Some of my closest believing friends would disagree with me here, believing that one can lose their salvation, but I believe in eternal security. I am not a theologian so I look for simple answers.
Here is my quick answer to my friend:
Dear _______,
These are standard questions most people wrestle with at some point in life. Great questions.
Here’s a short answer. I believe in eternal security, because:
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The Bible says “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you SHALL be saved”…not you might be saved…
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The Bible says “Do not worry”…How could you not worry if you were constantly wondering if you’ve gone too far…if you had lost your salvation?
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It takes grace to be saved, why would it take works to remain saved?
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Works are the result of salvation, not to earn or keep salvation…
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Was there ever a time when you were “living in sin” when you didn’t “believe”? I’d say probably not…you may not have looked like a believer…but Jesus looks at the heart, not the outward appearance…
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If we start drawing lines of how to lose salvation, where does the line stop? Could we ever remain saved? It’s just like the law…Jesus even added higher standards…one bad thought…one lust…one hatred…one dishonoring of parents…one idol placed in front of God…and we’re doomed…who then could be saved? Read the rich young ruler story…”What’s impossible for man is possible with God”…
The bottom line though is what difference does it make about what could have happened then? The bottom line is, are you saved now? Which, from watching your heart and life, I believe you are indeed.
Rejoice in your salvation!
Love your heart!
Hope this helps!
God bless,
Ron
There is so much more to this issue, but I suspect many others, including me, have wrestled with this same issue.
How would you have answered?
What questions do you have about eternal security?
Does this testimony resemble your own?
Share your thoughts!
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Just completed a fantastic book by 'Jerry Bridges' called "The Gospel for Real Life". The author was dealing on the same subject. People in such a state of mind should be reading it. Found it very refreshing and strengthening.
Anyone with a 'ho-hum' attitude about our salvation, a 'take it or leave it' attitude will enjoy reading this resource. I am sure with the author, we will celebrate our life with Christ. I found this book a very basic, easy to read guideline to the aspect of Salvation and the Christian Life. Through beautiful story-telling, pointed analogies, and soul-stirring metaphors the author makes deep truths easily understood.
Thanks for recommending this book. I've read some of his work before…good stuff.
I've struggled with this a lot, as I'm sure most of us have. There's a tention between God's grace, Jesus total sacrifice and "living in sin". Can I trust in God, and then go live however and still be saved?
I think (and please… I'm also not a theologian… just trying to figure it out too) that we have the concept of "Belief" and "Faith" wrong. I believe that faith is more of an ongoing action or lifestyle, and not something that happened in some moment of my life that qualified me for an eternal membership card to heaven.
Faith is "Walking in Jesus", trusting in Him for my salvation, remaining under His shelter (Psalm 91). When I am walking with Jesus and trusting in Him, I have all of the benefits that come with what He won for us in his death on the cross and in his resurrection. I am free. Nothing can separate me from His love. I may stumble, I may mess up a bunch, but IN Him, I have nothing to worry about. But when I am not IN Him, when I walk away, when I turn my back, I don't have the benefits that He has won for whoever "Believes" in Him.
I kind of see it like this. When I am trusting in Jesus and walking with Him (even though I'm not perfect)… when I approach the Father… what does the Father see? He see's Jesus. When I am doing life on my own, in my own way… when I approach the Father… what does He see? He sees me. When the Father sees Jesus, He sees perfection and holiness. When He sees me… well… it's not very pretty. I am guilty and eternally condemned. Jesus sacrifice counts for all who "Believe" in Him, "Trust" in Him… in other words all who "remain in Him" (John 15).
There are probably a million holes in that answer too… that's why even great theologians can't agree on it. But I've struggled with this question a lot, and this is what I've come up with. Does that make sense to anyone else?
Makes sense to me. Thanks for sharing your heart.
I appreciate the insight. I would have answered the same. Honestly, does it matter? She's walking with the Lord now.
I appreciate the question you asked "Was there ever a time when you were “living in sin” when you didn’t “believe”? Yep, even when I walked in sin I still believed in Christ. I just wasn't obeying.
However, I can't get pass we all have a free will: we can choose to walk away and choose to come back.
I so much agree, in the end Laurinda. I do think it's worth considering, because so many are tripped up in their walk by what happened years ago, but I agree…if she's in now…that's the part worth rejoicing.
Ron, I am really, really glad you posted this! So many ministers don't have the courage to venture into such controversial waters. Thank you for not being one of those ministers.
I am a Biblical Theist. I have little use for denomination or dogma. I believe that the Bible is true, and my beliefs about salvation are based on what the Bible says.
Spiritual Magnetism
Without getting into a whole crazy discussion about how magnets work, I just want to use a little analogy, if I may, to illustrate how I understand salvation. If you hold one end of a magnet close to a the end of another magnet, it will either attract or repel it. Whether the magnets attract or repel each other depends on the polarity of the ends you are bringing together. In addition to permanent and temporary magnets, a magnet can also be created by using electric current. These electromagnets are based on the principle that electric current has a small magnetic field around it when flowing through a circuit.
That being said, I believe we are spiritual beings that have spiritual properties that work in a manner analogous to the way electromagnets work. In our natural state, we are spiritually inert, unable to be attracted to God. We lost our "charge" when man fell. When we are saved, God "quickens" us, sending a spiritual charge through our entire being. [(Psalm 71:20; 80:18; 119:25; 119:37; 119:40; 119:50; 119:88; 119:93; 119:107; 119:149; 119:154; 143:11. John 5:21; 6:63. Romans 4:17; 8:11. 1 Corinthians 15:36; 15:45. Ephesians 2:1. Colossians 2:13; 1 Timothy 6:13. 1 Peter 3:18.)(KJV)] This quickening turns us on, like a spiritual electromagnet, making us able to be attracted to God. The spiritual current of Christ's sacrifice, love and spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45) that we accept and "tap into" fuels our spiritual-magnetic bond with God.
When you understand salvation this way, the current state of your salvation does not depend on a single event, but, rather, a state of being. What is the state of your heart, right now, in this moment? What is your relationship like with Jesus Christ? THAT is what is important.
Can the Current Be Shut Off?
The discussion is about "eternal security" vs. "losing your salvation," but – with all due respect – the debate is moot. It is without value, because it entirely ignores a much more important question: Are you saved, right now? When you understand that salvation is not contingent upon an event, but, instead, on a certain spiritual state of being, you will realize that it doesn't matter whether you can "lose your salvation" or whether you have some kind of religious "Afterlife Insurance."
Just like the bond between electromagnets can be increased and decreased, sometimes our bond with God is stronger, and sometimes it is weaker. It just depends on how much "juice" is flowing through your spiritual circuit. Mostly, that's up to you.
Your faith is what flips the switch on and off. (Mark 5:34. 2 Corinthians 13:5) But that's not the whole story, is it? What about our actions? What role have they to play in our spiritual life?
Your actions – the evidence of your faith – are what turns up (or down) the amperage on your bond with God. (Matthew 7:16; 7:20; 9:29; 17:20. Also: http://bit.ly/mDoEsc)
When We Die…
After life has reached its end, our current is either "on" or it is "off." If it's on, our souls are attracted to God, and we spend the rest of eternity in His presence. If our current is off, our souls are repelled – the result of our own choice not to accept his spiritual quickening – and we spend eternity in a place absent of the presence of God. That is the most specific description of the afterlife I am willing to accept, and it covers everything that matters.
You are either in God's presence, or you are not. Given the presence of God, what else matters? You think you'll care if your relatives or friends are there? You think you'll care if there are angels or streets of gold or any of the other trappings in which heaven has been dressed by religion over the years? Think about that. Put it all on the scale, with all that celestial accoutrement on the one side, and the presence of the Almighty on the other. No contest.
Sure, we care about all that stuff, now (and don't you think those who have developed human religion over the years have emphasized those things for exactly that reason?), but once we are dead, all that will matter is the presence of God, and whether or not we can bask in it for all eternity.
I didn't intend to deliver an entire three-part sermon, here, but I LOVE this discussion topic. It's great to have the opportunity to share a fresh perspective on salvation that challenges the old, entrenched religious view with a Biblically-founded perspective. Of course, those who fear letting go of that "prayer they prayed at X with Y at such and such a time when they were Z years old," because that is what they're trusting in for their Afterlife Insurance to pay off will probably vehemently oppose this point of view. I've been called a heretic for less. That's a small disadvantage, I suppose.
The advantage of my perspective is that it is (1) Biblically-founded, (2) understandable, rational and logically consistent, and (3) it promotes Christ-following behavior that can crank up the amperage on your spiritual bond with God all the way to 11! (http://bit.ly/kTrdCM) I don't know about you, but those are all things I'm really into, so accepting this Biblical, rational understanding of salvation is a faith-enhancer for me.
Good stuff
Yes, I'd rather that debate too, and it's where I take people every time they come to me with this issue….
Noel, thanks for your thoughtful, insightful comments. I should have also said, "I'm not an intellectual". I'm a pretty simple guy you know. But, you are right, the big deal is "What's the state of your heart, right now, in this moment?" Totally agree.
I'm not an intellectual, either… at least, I don't consider myself to be an intellectual. One does not have to be an "academic" or an "intellectual," to apply reason to faith. Honestly, I'd take one humble man making a "good faith" (pardon the pun) effort to understand his faith over a thousand "intellectual" theologians any day of the week.
I just love talking about this stuff with people who actually care, and are willing to honestly question and think about the relevant issues. All too often, I have been repulsed by people who would rather lazily do some sort of theological or dogmatic hand-waving and say, "It's best not to look at these sorts of things under too strong a microscope."
I'm with Galileo, who said, "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended for us to forego their use." Thanks for facilitating a discussion that concerns matters of faith in a way that makes room for sense, reason and intellect. In doing so, you have successfully captured me as a recurring member of your digital audience.
I agree. You form your thoughts and discussion well, though, and sound like you've done your research. Maybe you're not an "intellectual" per se…but you're obviously a great thinker.
I really appreciate that, Ron. That's one of the best compliments I could receive. I appreciate your tolerance of the expression of my views here. Keep those great blog articles and discussions coming! I'll be here to read them and occasionally weigh in, "Lord willin' an' the creek don't rise."
Thanks Noel
I'm with you; once saved always saved. Where I waver is with the thought of were you really saved in the first place. Going back to your quote "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ…" The question I think becomes, did you really believe? That's an incredibly gray area. I am human and I will continue to sin. But the thing is, with a belief in Jesus as my savior, I try not to sin or I have guilt from my sin and I attempt to change my sin patterns. I am willing to be shown by others that I am in a sin pattern. If I say that I have been saved, but then go out the next day with my old crowd and steal and kill and rape, I would question whether I really meant that prayer. And really, it's between that person and Jesus; we can speculate, but that's all it is. With a "normal" person, I'd say that if someone gets to the point where they want to accept Jesus and do so, then they have been saved.
When I first prayed that prayer, I was left in a "now what" kind of position. For years I wandered being good on Sunday and a mixed bag the rest of the time. It took years before I realized how to "be" a Christian. But during that time, I believe that I was still saved.
Then for years I had a poor relationship with Him that impacted my life negatively in so many ways. And finally, about two years ago, He saved me out of that mess and probably for the first time in my life, I realized what it is to have a really good and trusting relationship with God. The time between being saved and two years ago was over 35 years. But even in that lostness, I believe that I was still saved. And along the way, when I could see the failures in my life, I rededicated my life to Him. Not that I felt unsaved, but felt the need to say the words. But still I believe that I was saved.
Thanks Jon. Good reflection.
Great summation of eternal security! Certainly a topic that creates heated discussion, but usually because we don't define our own terms too well. My seven year old struggled with this recently, yes my SEVEN year old. But he took comfort in what Jesus said in John 10, "no one can snatch them from my hand" he further said, "my sheep will never perish." In the Greek, it is written with a double negative, a device used to accentuate the force of Jesus' statement. It literally reads, "my sheep will not never perish." Maybe Jesus was really a good ole boy from my neck of the woods!
If we can undo what He did, then He is not who He says He is! Thanks again.
thanks Jeff.